The Ballot Brief: Sara Rodriguez

Welcome to the ballot brief, a podcast series of interviews with Democratic gubanatorial candidates ahead of the August 11th primary. First, I want to welcome our listeners and thank our

media sponsor, Home Techch by Mosaic. I also want to thank our guest, current Lieutenant Governor and Democratic gubanatorial primary candidate Sarah Rodriguez. Lieutenant Governor

Rodriguez, thank you for the time for taking the time to engage with our community and discuss issues that matter to our businesses. >> Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

>> I also want to start with a quick disclaimer. At no point in this series is the chamber endorsing candidates. We support policies that equip our region with the resources we need to support

businesses and sustain our growth. So, first I want to start with some questions covering categories that stand out to you about our community. So, I I've been asking um each candidate kind

of what is a standalone issue that affects the Oaklair business community that you have noticed. >> So, one of the things that I I think is important that affects the Oaklair

business community is honestly healthcare. We know that hospitalist hospitals have closed in that region and um we're looking at cuts to Medicaid and Medicare after the midterms. That is

going to affect our rural hospital systems way more than our urban and suburban hospital systems. And that that's going to affect the entire oclair area. And so making sure that we have

plans to be able to put a band-aid on um some of these cuts that are coming uh to the you know to Wisconsin nationally really in Medicaid and Medicare is something that I'm really focused on

because we cannot have another hospital close in this state. We already have women who have to drive hours to have babies and that's a huge issue in the state and we have to make sure that

we're supporting our hospital systems all across the state of Wisconsin but particularly Oaklair since you've already been hit. >> Absolutely. healthcare affordability but

also accessibility um availability lots of words but here we've noticed things um health care of course but also workforce challenges funding from the state to our strugg struggling

municipalities housing affordability education energy affordability in general as kind of a recurring theme um and today I'd kind of like to also start with your background your governing

style your priorities for the state budget workforce I'd like to discuss business, climate, healthcare, and data centers. It's very ambitious to cover all of those things, but um

>> Oh, good. I I think you can do it. I think you can get them all in. >> Absolutely. So, for listeners that recognize your name as Wisconsin's Lieutenant Governor, or for those who

just recognize your name as a candidate on the ballot in the Democratic gubanatorial primary in August, what sets you apart from other candidates, whether that's policy, whether that's

personality, leadership, style? >> Yeah, so I'm actually a nurse by background. I have spent most of my career in healthcare, whether that as as an ER nurse working night shift um in

the emergency department all the way to running really big public health programs. And that's what I thought I was going to do for my career. That's how I was going to serve my community.

And I stepped up in 2019 2020 when I saw the chaos of the Trump administration and especially the misinformation and disinformation about COVID. During that time, I had been an epidemic

intelligence service officer with the Centers for Disease Control, did national international outbreak investigations, and I knew how dangerous it was to have that misinformation out

there for individuals. So, I ended up running for assembly in district 13, which is in Wacaaw and Milwaukee County. And I was able to flip that district from red to blue. Um, and that was a

four-term Republican incumbent. And so I'm the only one in the primary field who has proven that they can win a difficult race in a purple district. And that's what we are in Wisconsin. We are

a purple state. um as well as then stepped up again to run for lieutenant governor when Governor Ivers needed a partner statewide um after Lieutenant Governor Barnes decided to run for

Senate and won my primary statewide and then won in the general with Governor Ivers um with three and a half percentage points as he calls it a landslide in the state of Wisconsin. Um

and you know I've been so lucky to serve with him to watch his leadership and especially with a hostile legislature. Uh, but I knew when Trump won for a second time that I wanted to run for

governor because we needed somebody who had the skill set and the relationships to be able to get an agenda across the finish line. And I strongly believe that my outside administrative experience in

private industry as well as holding elected office well equips me to run something as large as the state government. But I've also maintained my relationships in the Assembly and the

Senate and have the most endorsements of sitting legislators today. And that's built on trust. And we're going to have to work hard for Wisconsinites and we're going to have to work together for

Wisconsinites. And so I think it shows that my leadership style is one of coalition building and one of working well with others um or I wouldn't have gotten these endorsements from sitting

legislators. And so that's what I would say to folks in Wisconsin. You're going to want somebody a who understands this is a purple state and wants to work with and be a governor for everyone across

the state and b has the leadership style um to be able to work with anybody um and um be able to work with the legislative bodies to get policies that are going to lower costs for

Wisconsinites all across the state. >> Yeah. So, kind of going back to your background being a nurse, um I'm curious how that aside from the policy expertise on healthcare, how that would shape the

way that you approach making difficult decisions. And you had mentioned, well, I think you've mentioned in an ad campaign actually that you've been an ER nurse in the past and if that would

impact like the way that you approach challenging nuance decisions. >> So, as as a nurse, um you basically assess first, right? you never kind of jump into anything or do a knee-jerk

response to anything. You're you're consistently assessing, gathering data, and then making good decisions. The other thing I would say is that because I worked in the ER, I saw people on the

worst day of their lives. And when I was working within the health care system, I was working pre-affordable care act and after affordable care act. So, I saw when people would walk through my ER

doors how scared they were that they were got not going to be able to afford the care that they received or watched how they came in so late when they should have come in months earlier with

an issue because again they did not have the coverage or the money to be able to afford care. And that's what worries me coming up with these cuts to Medicaid and Medicare moving forward that um

we're we're getting back to that space again. I've spoken to this one woman actually in the lacrosse area and she said to me she's on the exchange and her premium has doubled or more. She's going

to go without. She's going to cross her fingers and hope nothing happens. And that is not a way that anyone should be able to or should have to make that decision for themselves. Just to cross

their fingers and hope nothing happens. We know that life is unpredictable, healthc care is unpredictable, and to not have the coverage that you need is is really, really sad for somebody like

me who wants to make sure that everybody is able to get the health care where they need it and at a cost they can afford. So, as the lieutenant governor, as a um

healthc care professional as well, it's important obviously in a in a big race to kind of set yourself apart from the other candidates. You recently received the endorsement of former WEDC secretary

and CEO Missy Hughes, uh who has spoken about her roots growing up on a farm in Wisconsin's Drifless region. So given Hugh's experience also in economic development across the state, how kind

of do you interpret that endorsement and how will you move her how will you use her endorsement moving forward? >> So I was just so humbled and proud to get um Missy Hughes endorsement. She is

an amazing woman and has enormous expertise in economic development. She also lives in western Wisconsin on a farm. In fact, when I called to talk to her, she was dealing with goats or

something along those lines. Um, and so I what I what I will use for her is her expertise. You know, she has really she took the Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation from those Scott Walker days

um where it was absolutely focused on big businesses, the kind of Foxcons of the world, and she moved it to focus more on small businesses and the lifeblood of our state here. We know

that 99% of businesses are small businesses and so relying on her expertise as I move my economic policies forward um making sure that I can connect to her connections off in

western Wisconsin. Although I have some connections in western Wisconsin as well. My mom grew up on a dairy farm in Richland County. So rural she went to a one room schoolhouse through 8th grade.

And for anybody who may be listening, um, if you know Richland County at all, she her the farm was between Bosstown and Sugar Grove, which nobody will know unless you actually live in rural

Richland County. But yeah. >> So, um, kind of conversely, what is one thing that stands out to you that you largely differ policywise from the other

candidates on the ballot? So, I would say that I um that I'm a progressive, pragmatic leader in the line of Governor Ivers and Senator Baldwin and that I do not want to promise anything that I

can't deliver on. And so, I have comprehensive plans for health care. I have comprehensive plans for reducing the cost of child care across the state. That I am going to be working on fully

funding our public schools so that we can lower property taxes across the state of Wisconsin. We know that we are top 10 top 10 in the country for property taxes. That's that is really

rough on people's finances, particularly when they're on a fixed income. So, when I was um in Dne County, I was speaking to a woman. She was in her late 60s um on a fixed income. House was paid off.

Yet she's looking at having to sell her home because she can't afford the property taxes. These are the kind of things that government can do. Government can fix problems and protect

the most vulnerable in our state. And I think that in terms of those policy solutions, they are they are pragmatic. They are doable. And um even with a split legislature, these things are

popular in the state of Wisconsin. And so I I think we can get them across the finish line with the right leader at the top of the ticket. >> Yeah, absolutely. And the housing issue

that you mentioned is certainly resonates with the Oaklair area as well. Not only property taxes, but also rent prices and housing availability in the first place. We have a lot of we have a

homelessness crisis here in Oaklair and so a lot of older folks are um on the street for the first time in their lives at 65 or 70 years old because they can't afford um renting anymore. So certainly

certainly an issue that comes front of mind for us as well as healthcare. Um but so kind of moving into you mentioned relationships that you've kind of um nursed,

pun intended. Um, but also recently gaining a lot of attent attention was the failed surplus deal in Madison. Um, I'm curious to start if you think that that like what kind of your stance on

that if you think that that would have been an effective solution for Wisconsinites that are hurting in this affordability crisis. >> So, um, I what what for the failed

surplus deal, if it would have had bipartisan support and it made it to governor's desk, I would not have encouraged him to veto it. I mean, I think that what he was trying to do is

to try to get dollars in people's pockets, but at the end of the day, it it failed and we have got to move forward. And what we need to do is have a permanent fix for some of these

economic issues across the state. We need a permanent fix for how we fund our public schools. So, right now, um, the formula we use to fund our public schools is over 30 years old. And so it

is not a modern solution for modern problems within our school system. So we have got to holistically look at every child in the school the schools whether they're in a rural school district that

requires extra transportation costs whether that is um in an urban district um that has you know perhaps more poverty concentrated in smaller areas. Um and so we have to make sure we are

looking holistically at that child and then looking at English language learners, special education um funding and making sure the schools have what they need. We need a permanent fix for

that. And then um what we need to also do is to lower costs for families. And one of the the the policies that I have is to make child care no more than 7% of your income. That's it. Let's treat it

like the infrastructure that it is because it is infrastructure. And I have spoken to families all across the state who have um put themselves on waiting lists when they're thinking about

getting pregnant like >> because the waiting list is so long. >> And when they do get on and when they do actually have um child care, sometimes they have to cobble they only get a day

or two. They have to cobble it together with their spouse or with their mom or somebody else to try to make sure the kids have what they need or they can only go back to work part-time. So

there's a huge amount of money that is being sucked out of our economy because people cannot find child care or and cannot afford it when they can find it. And let's be clear that that's mostly

women that are being taken out of the workforce. And that's going to hurt us moving forward when they don't have the number of retirement dollars in their account. they don't have, you know, the

type of um work history that they're going to be able to increase their pay um significantly. And so this is it's a real burden on the state and it's a real burden on families.

I'm curious um if you could maybe expand on the like funding plan for making child care costs only 7% of income because that's certainly also an issue here in Oaklair and we've really

struggled with >> all of the different funding silos or lack thereof and and where we can pull resources that don't really even exist to begin with.

>> Right. So what the um the model that I there are other states that have done this. Um New Mexico is one model, Vermont is the other model, I think. um based on our size and based on kind of

what um our economy looks like in Wisconsin, the Vermont model is likely going to be the way to go. Um so that would be able to fund um to fund a segregated fund for child care. Um and

that is a way that we can we would also be able to include paid family leave in that. And it would work like unemployment insurance, right? Just a tiny little bit of money every person

going into this into this bucket. And um and if you think about it, if we have also have paid family leave, uh if you have a baby and you have a twoerson household, you have six uh six months of

of child care just baked in because you're going to be paid um paid family leave for those for those three months for one person and then after that three months for the next and then um we can

work on those other pieces later as well. So that's kind of the funding model for what it looks like. It's likely going to be the Vermont model. Um, but I'm open to suggestions from the

legislature, suggestions from the other side of the aisle, what their solutions are to childare. I haven't heard a ton of it. Um, but making sure that we have those resources that that would be a

huge, huge lift on families across the state. And that is my goal is to make Wisconsin the best place for young people and young families to thrive in the entire United States.

So, um, putting solutions like these in place requires building relationships across the aisle to make sure that these programs are sustainable for the long term, um, and that their funding is

secured. So, governing as a Democratic governor in a purple state um, means having these conversations and and kind of building on these relationships more for when the pendulum will inevitably

swing in the opposite direction. So, moving into a budget cycle, how would your leadership approach look like working with the Republican party when um through the budget process?

>> So, the the budget process is going to be the same as we have had it with Governor Ivers, which is a fully transparent process. Um doing listening sessions all across the state where

everybody can come and talk about what their priorities are. The other thing I'm willing to do is to take good ideas from anywhere. I think that um the Republican party may have some good

ideas that we would like to implement into our budget process. And being able to allow every representative, every senator, regardless of party, to submit what they're looking for for their

district, what they're looking for overall to solve some of these problems, I think is a way we can have some creative solutions to very difficult problems. Um, and then that budget will

go through the joint finance committee as it does already, and they will be arguing within the joint finance committee what stays in, what comes out, and then it comes back to my desk um as

to whether I want to sign it and say, "Yes, this is the budget that I think reflects Wisconsin values." And that's going to be a negotiation process the entire time. Um, we have three separate

branches of government for a reason. And the reason is is because there are checks and balances within those three branches of government, but also we get different ideas from every single part

of the system. And I think that's what makes Wisconsin great and what makes the US great. So, not to kind of beat a dead horse, but with the failed surplus deal, it

showed a lot of kind of fracturing and complex relationships within government and it made a lot of Wisconsinites feel fatigue and and like a little bit more tired of their government. Um, so I'm

curious, you know, aside putting the actual substance of the bill aside, how would your approach avoid scenarios like that from happening? So, conversations have to be happening

early on. Just just just in general. I'm not even talking about the surplus deal, but conversations need to be happening early on. And um we need to have those negotiations early on in the process

because if we're having those negotiations late, then um we're we're trying to deal with conflict very late in the session and may be unable to come to an agreement. And so reaching out to

the leadership within the assembly and the senate. Um making sure we have those conversations and u at the end of the day you got to count your votes too in terms of how many people are are

committed to voting for a specific piece of legislation and that involves talking to legislators. That involves talking to leadership. That involves involving stakeholders. So, if um there are

stakeholders that have a vested interest in making sure a piece of legislation passes, having making sure that they're talking to the legislators and saying, "Look, this is what this will do for our

community. If you are able to pass something like um paid family leave, the business community is going to be supportive of this because, and I'm just making that up. I'm not putting words in

your mouth at this point, but I would say, you know, the business community would likely be supportive of this because it's a way that can be helpful with child care, number one, and number

two, it keeps people in the workforce for longer if we've got something that covers them for paid family leave. And I would say paid family leave is is is being passed all around us. So, if you

are a young person or a young family that's thinking about, hey, I might be wanting to start a family soon and you can choose to live right over the border and get paid family leave, right? Or you

could choose to live in Wisconsin and not get it. That's that's a decision-making process for for young families when money is so tight. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, healthcare is

definitely an aspect into um competitiveness in Wisconsin and our region and maintaining that workforce and continuing to grow our workforce. Um Oakclair is actually the third fastest

growing county in Wisconsin. That's our favorite statistic behind Dane County and Trumpo counties as well. Um so healthcare, workforce, education, child care, these are all really crucial parts

of that puzzle. Um kind of circling back to healthcare and getting more specific into that. So, you've you've discussed your extensive background in healthcare. Um, you've stated that a goal of your

campaign is to lower health care costs by launching a program called Badger Choice. Can you tell me a little bit more about just like the basic structure of this program and and kind of where

its funding is drawn from and who would benefit in general? So, Badger Choice is a public option on the exchange and it is modeled after Colorado's public option model because I'm a firm believer

that we do not have to reinvent the wheel. We can look to other states, other communities, and you know, try to make sure that what we're implementing is evidence-based. And that what they've

seen in Colorado is that they've had a flattening out of costs and now it's starting to come down. So, this particular um public option requires a 5% reduction in premiums annually with

some cost transparency tools in there. Um, and that's going to be for anybody who would like to buy in. So, it's not necessarily something that the state the state's going to use its power to

negotiate prices, but they um they would be able to purchase into that particular healthcare plan. So, it's not necessarily a huge outlay of dollars for the state of Wisconsin. Um and then

secondly, um expansion of Medicaid is something that I've also been a proponent of. With the big ugly bill that passed, um it is going to be more difficult for Wisconsin to pass this.

It's going to be more expensive. If we would have passed it just even last year with the Republican le legislature, we would have had $2 billion to deal deal with some of these affordability issues.

And um it's almost like we set that money on fire because of the changes that they made within the big ugly bill. Uh but I still think it's the right thing to do is to expand Medicaid so

that we can cover as many people as possible. And then my last piece of it is rural health stabilization funds. So again, uh we know that these cuts that are coming to Medicaid and Medicare are

going to hit rural health care way harder than any place else because they rely more on Medicaid and Medicare. and we're going to have to have a band-aid until we can fix what Trump and Tiffany

have broken in terms of some of these Medicaid and Medicare cuts. Uh, and so that's going to be my my plan to try to lower health care costs across the state. But again, I am one person with

one plan and there are many people in the state and we have worked with stakeholders all across the state to put this plan together, but also working with legislators and saying, you know,

what are you seeing in other states? What are some things that we can do that are innovative in the state of Wisconsin to lower costs? I'm happy to have those types of conversations and be able to

negotiate what this looks like. >> Yeah. So another also important aspect of um health care costs also to the business community is workers compensation. According to a report by

the Wisconsin manufacturers and commerce, Wisconsin actually places first for medical payments for workers compensation of 36 states in the study conducted compared to neighboring

states. Wisconsin's medical payments are between 9 and 28% higher than Illinois, Indiana, and Iowa. um workers costs, workers compensation costs continue to be like one of the top issues for

Oaklair businesses. Um what solutions do you see worth pursuing for the >> So I think what you're talking about as well is that just the cost of care is

high, right? And so some of the reasons why um these these costs are so high in Wisconsin is that we have higher costs than our neighbors. just just the basic costs of care are higher and so some of

the solutions that I have proposed um will put downward pressure on those prices which will help with workers compensation costs overall to be able to lower them. Um so that's something that

I think is is going to be um a positive for for the business community. >> Okay. Is there any kind of initiatives that you see value in pursuing specifically about workers compensation

or is that kind of secondary to just those general costs bringing them down? >> I think just bringing those down as well, but then making sure that um we have um you know good policies in place

about what that looks like for workers compensation that um we have good safety um regulations within our our business community so we can lower the number of claims for worker compensation. And

that's something that is really important too. Um and that's going to be able to to lower those costs across the board. >> Okay. Yeah. Because um workers

compensation is um plays a factor in making sure that Wisconsin is an attractive place for businesses to move but also to stay and to expand. Um workforce is also a barrier in kind of

Wisconsin's economic competitiveness. Um as I referred to before, Oaklair is the third fastest growing county. Um, as governor, is there a specific plan that you have to make sure that Wisconsin is

more of a an attractive place for businesses to move and expand? >> So, absolutely. Um, the WEDC has done a lot of this work to be able to move here and expand. Another way that we can get

venture capital into the state of Wisconsin for fast growing, you know, businesses, for entrepreneurs, is doing a fund of funds. Um, right now we do have a fund of funds, but it is not

capitalized as well as some other states, even states like Ohio, um, have more dollars within that than we do. And so, keeping those dollars here, keeping those businesses here so that people

don't have to go out of state to get investors. That's something that we can grow and expand upon. Um, making it as easy as possible for small businesses to come to the state. Uh, right now there's

there's really not a one-stop shop for small businesses. I had a small business myself and it was challenging to figure out what I needed to do to make sure I was in compliance and um so you've got

in different areas, different categories, different places within within the government. So having sort of one door that small businesses or any business can go to to make sure that

they have the resources that they need and that they are in full compliance is something that I've heard from businesses across the state is very confusing to them. Um, and so trying to

make sure that we make that as easy as possible. And then, um, businesses want workers. So, if we can make Wisconsin attractive to young people and young families, I think that's going to draw

businesses into the state. Um, if we can work on our public school system and and finance it appropriately, if we can um subsidize child care in the state and paid family leave, that's going to pull

more people into the state who are going to be able to work. Um, we have a world-class technical college system in the state working with business leaders to make sure that the type of programs

that they're offering are meeting their needs. Um, the other thing that I've been a big proponent of within my educational plan is how do we skill up um, folks faster and um, having them do

that within high school if that's possible so that they leave high school with a skill set that can be useful. um even if they want to go to college, they want to go in that four-year pathway,

but at least they're they're leaving with some useful skill. Um and one of the things that example that I've given, I was on the um I was the chair of the healthcare workforce task force. And two

things that I I think were really good programs um that I wanted to highlight was there is a high school um in northern Wisconsin that has worked with their technical college system so that a

high school student can graduate with their licensed practical nursing degree at the same time that they graduate high school. >> That's amazing.

>> And I mean that's going to help our workforce challenge. That's going to help other things. we could look at that overall to see what can we do within our high school curriculum where they're

getting th those um the humanities, they're getting English, they're getting all of these other things, but can we also have somebody leave with the skill set at the end? And I even talk about

this with families who maybe their child wants to go to medical school. you know, can you imagine how competitive you would be for medical school or veterinary school if you already had an

LPN degree and you were working within the hospital system? So, it's not just for folks who want to work right after high school, but it it fills a need for us. The other one I want to highlight um

that the Evers Rodriguez administration um you know launched with our partner W Health was one of the first nursing apprenticeship models in the country. um basically taking certified nursing

assistants uh paying them full-time wages, full-time benefits, and paying for their time in class and they will graduate with an associate degree in nursing in four years with no debt. And

that's an as somebody who turning 51 at the end of this month and I just paid off my student loans by the way, I think that's pretty amazing. So, how do we take that apprenticeship model that

works in other fields like plumbing, like carpentry, and how do we apply that more broadly so that we can get folks who can't pull themselves out of the workforce to get additional education?

They need to continue to get paid. Um so there's different pathways that we can explore within the state and I would love us to be a leader on looking at some of these more professional

um pathways um that also you can be able to get with um an apprenticeship type model. >> Okay. Yeah. So kind of going into like those those pathways um do you what do

you foresee is a potential relationship? You mentioned like apprenticeships and things like that partnerships. Um, here at the chamber, we do a lot with apprenticeships and um and those sorts

of opportunities. I'm curious what you think the impact of the private sector could be in that potential relationship. And I also want to take them a moment to um plug our 900 district which just

announced that it's going to be a collaboration between Chipo Valley Technical College and Wclair and their nursing departments as well. Um plenty of other things going on in that amazing

building, but just just thought that was relevant here as well to bring up. But yeah, so the kind of the role of the private sector and the pathways that you mentioned,

>> I I think they're critical. I mean, right now, um you know, when we when we look at our apprenticeships all across the state, uh the number one employer for apprenticeships is actually UW

Health uh which is because they do apprenticeships for certified nursing assistants, for medical assistants. Um they're doing it for respiratory

therapists now. They're doing it for surgical assistants. So they have really looked at that model and said you know what we're going to grow our own and we look at this model and we think that it

is cost competitive to uh other folks who are you know doing other things across the state different other healthcare systems and so working with the private industry to do some maybe

some pilots on some of these apprenticeship models and once that we can have proof points that yes this actually saves you money in the long run um to be able to grow your own into

these roles. Um you know, how can we how can we then incentivize them to do that and then putting it back on the private industry? Because right now, if you're wanting to be a plumber or an

electrician, um that is not paid by the state. The state does not put any dollars into that. That is specifically paid um if you're doing through an apprenticeship model, that's paid by the

union and it's paid by the employers. And so getting that type of model out in more industries, I think would be really important for Wisconsin. >> Yeah, absolutely. And on the

conversation of of attracting and retaining workforce and making sure that Wisconsin is an attractive place for businesses to move and to expand, um, a really crucial part of this conversation

is data centers. Um, it's something that's certainly been popping up a lot in Oaklair and discussion in northern Wisconsin, but also in Wisconsin altogether and throughout the country.

But um data centers have raised questions about energy demand and infrastructure, but they also represent significant investment and potential economic activity. So to kind of start

the conversation about data centers, um there's been a lot of conversation surrounding AI and data centers, um and those topics are often discussed together. Um I'd like to start from your

perspective. What do you think is the relationship between AI development and the need for data centers? And are they separate conversations or are they interconnected? Should they be separate

conversations? >> So, I think they're interconnected. The the data centers, you can't have AI without the data centers, right? And um so they are an interconnected policy,

but the issues um the effects on our workforce, the effects on Wisconsin are a little different. So, um, in terms of the data centers, um, I've been really clear on what I'm proposing, which is,

um, a statewide floor of regulation. So, what that looks like is that we need to have community input on whether a data center is built in that community. So, when I travel across the state, people

are telling me that they didn't even know a data center is coming in until the ink was already dry on the contract. >> That's unacceptable in the state. We have got to have community input into

these processes. So that's just basic. Needs to be built with union labor. We have to make sure that we're using the right types of labor um to get these things built. In terms of electricity

use, they need to pay enhanced rates, not just what they're using, but we have to be able to cover maintenance on the grid as well as the new transmission lines that are coming into these data

centers. And not or they've got to invest in renewables. you want to build here, you're going to invest in Wisconsin. This is going to get us closer to carbon neutral by 2050, which

is our goal for water usage. If they're taking it out of the system and putting it back in, which most are not, most have a closed closed system for water, but it has to be at the same temperature

and quality as they took it out. That's the floor, right? Different communities could say, "We're going to have stricter regulations for data centers," or they could say, "Not in my backyard." And

that's okay. Um and but that would be the the floor of that. In terms of how AI is affecting uh you know overall our our workforce we we already had an an AI workforce task force actually within the

Ivers Rodriguez administration that has a lot of recommendations on what we can do to futureproof some of these jobs and how we would want to put restrictions around AI. Uh, and so looking at those

recommendations with new eyes considering how fast AI is moving, I think is something good. But, you know, my son, he's a he's a he's going to be a sophomore in college and he's doing

accounting and Spanish. That's what he's doing. Accounting is one of those areas that may have pretty significant impacts from AI. And so we have to be looking our university systems and our technical

college systems to say how do they incorporate AI into some of the things that might be coming down the pike so that our students are ready. But we need restrictions around it. And I've put out

policies on big tech overall about social media about following our kids online about sexualization of our children online and being able to sue big tech if they harm our kids. Um, but

we also need regulations around AI. So, one of the things that AI and it's doing this today is you could go into a store and um they take the data about you, right? They they whatever they kind of

know who you are or what where what store you're in and where you're coming from and they decide how much they want to charge you for a particular product. It's called dynamic pricing. So it

changes based on who is standing in front of that product or changes based on the um the needs like you know on how much um people are buying that product at one point in time. So that seems to

me like that is not a great use of AI, right? So it's actually like screwing over consumers and that's going to be an an issue there. So we need to put restrictions around and other states

have looked at that and so we can look to models of other states about how they're putting restrictions on AI overall. >> Yeah. So by your vision, if we were able

to implement this sort of regulation floor, um would the state government then have an interest in making Wisconsin an attractive place for potential data centers? And when I say

data centers, I'm not specifically referring to hyperscale AI data centers. Um just more so things that could bring in a large amount of tax revenue for hurting municipalities and that sort of

thing. I'm curious kind of what you think that the state's role could be in the ideal scenario for a data center. >> So, right now I think the tax breaks that we have given those data centers

are too generous and I think we're going to have to be looking at at negotiating what that looks like moving forward. And these are billion-dollar companies. Um I don't think they need those tax breaks.

I they want to be able to build here. And um I you know if they want to build here, they got to invest here. And so that's kind of my bottom line on that is that that these we should not be giving

away tax breaks to billion trillion dollar companies when um we know that they're going to be wanting to come into Wisconsin to do these things. And so we can continue to have those conversations

about data centers. Um we want to and again if they're going to build here, we're going to have union labor building it, right? And um but we're going to have to have that conversation as a

community to say where do we want to invest our dollars, right? Where do we want to invest our dollars in terms of the state, whether that's tax breaks for hypers scale data centers or other types